Interview: Play Gay with Kellie Nalbandian
Season 45’s Kellie Nalbandian talks Fiji gaydar and dreamcasting an all-queer season of ‘Survivor’
To celebrate the season premiere of Survivor 46, we’re trying something new. Please enjoy this interview with the iconic Kellie Nalbandian from Survivor 45! Let us know what you think in the comments <3
This interview has been edited for length and clarity!
Written by Meg Steinfeld-Heim and Ali Romig
Meg: Thank you so much for agreeing to do this, Kellie! We’re so psyched to be having this conversation with you and that you read our DMs! And we can’t wait to talk Survivor. We're a big supporter of all the gays that go out for Survivor.
Kellie: Survivor has always been for the gays.
Ali: Exactly.
Does gaydar work on the island of Fiji?
Meg: I wanted to ask you your opinion. Do you think gaydar works on the island of Fiji?
Kellie: Gaydar on the island of Fiji...I think so! But everyone is pretty comfortable now, so it just comes out right away. And with Katurah and I being on the same tribe, we talked about being queer from the beginning. But when we got to the merge, I think it came up less. I have a fiancée, so it’s easy for me to talk about. I brought her up all the time. But a lot of people didn’t know that Katurah was queer until later in the season. And they were like, wait, what? It just never came up, which is so crazy. I think she surprises people, sort of like me. Even though when another queer person meets me, they're like, Oh, you're obviously gay. I mean, if I went on Survivor in my 20s, it would be a very different use of the gaydar, like—who's susceptible to a little Black Widow brigading? If you catch my drift.
Queering Reality TV
Meg: Why do you think Survivor has always spoken to queer audiences? And I feel like the follow up to that question is—what made you, as a queer person, want to be on it?
Kellie: I was thinking about this today. I'm a newer fan of Survivor, I didn't watch growing up or anything like that. I watched during the pandemic; one of my friends just put on Heroes vs Villains. And obviously, that's such a good season, I was fully obsessed. Eventually, I will watch all the seasons but I haven’t gotten there yet. So I'm kind of postulating based on what I've watched. And watching Survivor back, obviously, there are some highly problematic and totally shocking things said and done—but it did start in 2000. And I think it's almost a little hard to remember how different things actually were then. But Survivor was such a pervasive part of American culture for a while. It was in every household, and every household has queer people. All people are looking for something, whether it's seeing themselves directly, or someone they relate to, or someone that's like their first celebrity crush. I think that's how I see it. A lot of these reality competition shows have a huge queer following. I don't know if we're just really cerebral and love strategy games?
I got into it because I love the social strategy of it all. I do think queer people are better at that, to be honest. Todd is one of my favorite winners. I think he's such a great example of owning his queerness and being so good at the game. And then once I started to watch the new era, I could see there was such a large uptick in queer representation. Even though I think Survivor has had some problematic things, it's grown over time and has had consistent queer representation, so I do appreciate it for that.
Ali: Back in 2000, I feel like there were no complex queer characters on TV. But in Survivor, the queer people got to be just as messy as everybody else.
Kellie: Yeah.
Ali: We didn't get that representation from scripted television.
Kellie: That's so true. Yeah. Because I think, especially early on, in the 2000s and 2010s, all queer characters on shows were put in a box. Survivor inherently is about the whole of the person in this crazy environment. So you get to see someone who feels more tangible and real. And part of the great thing of reality TV is that it’s a real person versus a character. So that might even make someone feel more connected to somebody because they're not putting something on—it's actually who they are.
Meg: Yeah, I think Survivor sits in a very interesting place. Because like you said, it's been on TV for so long now. And it has risen in popularity, so much in part due to the shock value of the programming. And so I feel like, for better or for worse, queer people were a part of it from the very beginning. And so maybe back in the beginning, it was more of a shock value thing, but ultimately we did get to see ourselves.
Kellie: That's so true. I'm not so well versed in early Survivor, but I know that the first conversations when people would come out in early seasons were crazy. But it's one of those things that if people hadn't been exposed to it, and Survivor put a gay man on the show—that's progress. And that's cool. You know what I mean? Unfortunately, we couldn’t be too picky and choosy in the 2000s. Any representation was a step in a positive direction. I actually am so enthralled by this. I've never really thought about it deeply. But like, there's so many queer podcasts and stuff, and it's not like they're only rooting for me or even exclusively queer players—they all have their little favorites. It’s really a part of the culture.
Meg: Our whole college friend group is Survivor-obsessed—I think there's like one straight person in that whole group—and we talk about this all the time. We debate whether or not it's ethical to root for a Survivor player [from the old era] who's not gay. Because the queer players were really out there doing the work. It's hard not to admire a game like Todd's though—just such mastery from day one.
Kellie: He's so great. He makes those Funko Pops and he made one of me after my season. And I was so fangirly. I love his game; I definitely wish I said I wanted to play like Todd in my pre-game press.
Gay for play!
Ali: As you know, Survivor is basically creating a little society in isolation. Do you think that having a queer perspective changes how you play the social game or approach alliances? We’d love to hear what it was like to marry having a queer perspective and then heading in to play such a social game.
Kellie: Yeah, that's such a great question. I will say, in this era of Survivor, I felt very comfortable. Obviously there's like a little twinge of nervousness when you enter a new space, and it's all people you don't know, and Survivor is supposed to be like, we're from all these different backgrounds. And potentially, there will be somebody in the game who hasn't been around a lot of members of the LGBT community in their life. That is a little intimidating. But in terms of coming out—I did that immediately and it honestly helped me build a relationship with the group. The fact that I was comfortable right off the bat speaks to where I think we are with Survivor casting. And that there would even be two queer women on the same tribe is pretty cool, even though it didn't get highlighted in the season edit very much. That was so interesting.
In terms of playing the game, I just think there's so much space for queer people to explore their identity. For me, I've always appreciated being able to be out because there was a time period where I was not. And so owning that identity, and being really authentic is something I want to do in life, and also in Survivor. And even though I was obviously being deceptive, I wanted people to feel close to me and feel that they knew me well. And I wanted to be really vulnerable and share my experiences because I like doing that. It's also a little bit disarming. And if you're somebody who's willing to be vulnerable, it can act like a smokescreen within the context of the game. So that’s how I think the queer perspective can help; queer people have been forced to really think about their identity and who they are, because it's such a journey to get there for us. I always felt like it was a strength that just gave me another way to relate to other people, whether we have the same identity or not. And it was also a fun opportunity to surprise some people who maybe haven’t met a queer woman like myself. When I was in college, people were like, you look straight. I love to remind people that just because I have long hair, doesn’t mean I’m not a queer woman. I think feeling confident in that authenticity helped me out in the game.
Meg: I love that so much. I feel like you're hitting on the fact that the acute awareness that you have of your own personality and your selfhood as a queer person leads you to be potentially more empathetic than the average straight person. But then in Survivor, you can lead with that to create relationships…and also to mislead people. I love it. It's so layered.
Ali: Endlessly fascinating to hear how you have to think to go into this game.
Kellie: Yeah, I definitely wish I weaponized this more but, I think some of my favorite players are so good at having something that is disarming about them that allows them to maneuver in a more strategic way. Obviously, I completely failed at this eventually, because I got blindsided by this very thing. But for example, I think Cerie is very disarming personality-wise, and well, they put her in a box. People pinpointed Parvati as, oh, she's just the flirty girl—but she was actually a really smart and strategic player. And so I was wondering, what can be my thing? This isn’t even just about queerness. This is just my strategy. I thought, maybe if I'm really authentic people will feel comfortable and trust me and never think that I would be capable of backstabbing. I think some people believed this for me and others didn’t.
The Blindside of Things
Meg: I feel like we have to talk about ‘what-the-hell-guys’ gate. Let’s talk about your blindside. So obviously in Survivor, blindsides are rampant. Some players say, if they have to go out, they want to go out in an elaborate blindside. Since you've been brutally blindsided, we want to know—do you agree? And also, why do you think they’re such a revered part of the game?
Kellie: I am literally on record in all of my pregame press being like, if I'm gonna go out, I want to go out with a bang! I never wanted to fade quietly into the night. And there are so many different strategies you can play Survivor with. I knew that I wasn’t going to be someone who would sit back the whole game. If I was gonna get to the end, I wanted to have moves that I could stand on—whether they were social, strategic or whatever. But I do like to have a little bit of control—kind of a puppeteer, behind the scenes vibe. So I anticipated that I’d either leave in a crazy way, or I’d get really far. And unfortunately, I ended up on the blind side of things. But for me personally, I would always rather be taken out for being a threat than go quietly, and have it not be that big of a deal or just be like another number knocked off by this alliance. So it sucked in the moment, and I was devastated because I really cared. Some people thought that I was overdoing all that emotion for the cameras, but I don't even remember the blindside. I fully blacked out. I really cared, and I wanted to play hard. But the blindside is an honor, and there's mutual respect between me and all the Rebas who blindsided me. Like, I would do the same thing. I wanted to blindside other people. I think it's just such a fun part of the game. As we know from the season, blindsiding Bruce was my big plan. And I think if there are good blindsides in a season, that means there are some good high level players who might need to be blindsided. And so it is what it is.
Meg: No, I agree, it's the ultimate compliment. It's much more fun to watch than a season where each and every elimination is expected. Watching your blindside was heartbreaking! Your emotion was so genuine, we could see it all over your face. You were crushed. I would be too! It sucks.
Kellie: I think I called it an unfortunate honor. But people tell me all the time that they were so sad when I left and that’s so nice. It was nice to know that people were rooting for me and my game.
Meg: Yeah, absolutely. Well maybe you’ll be back!
Kellie: Listen. I hope so.
Old vs New Era
Ali: You had kind of alluded to the completely different vibe of the early seasons, which are great in their own way, but obviously, much more the Wild West when it comes to how people interacted with each other. How do you feel like playing Survivor as a queer person would have been different in the old era?
Kellie: Yeah, I mean, 100%. If I was 20 or 30 in the 2000s, the likelihood of me feeling comfortable enough to come out to my tribe is pretty low. I honestly probably wouldn't have told them, which is sad, and a bummer. But if I'm trying to win, and I'm trying to get along with most people, or manipulate them, or make them like me…I don't know if that would’ve been an advantage in the game at the time. So while I have my gripes with the new era, as we all do, I'm grateful I played now so that this was something that I could talk about. And it actually felt like it was an asset to me.
Ali: Have you ever watched Season 9 with Ami?
Kellie: I haven't watched it in full, but I’m aware of how important it is.
Ali: I'm gonna try not to spoil anything for you; all I'm gonna say is to me it feels like she's a queer woman I've seen successfully play the flirt game with other women—just the way she like, had the other women on that season in her pocket.
Kellie: Well now you've got to retrospectively acknowledge Parvati and Natalie Bolton.
Meg: Of course. You haven't seen that season yet, have you Ali?
Ali: No, that's the next one!
Kellie: Oh my gosh, you've seen Vanuatu but not Fans vs Favorites? I mean, I think Vanuatu's good, but that season is a top five.
Ali: I've been working my way through linearly, because that's just how my brain works.
Meg: I feel like we can relate to you, Kellie, because we also both are sort of late in life Survivor people; neither of us grew up watching it. And we both became obsessed in the last 1-2 years.
Ali: I'm kind of all over the place, because I started with these random later seasons. And then I was like, actually I need to know the full lore.
Kellie: Yeah! I'm usually about that. I went from Heroes vs. Villains to Pearl Islands, which is so great. And then I just Googled “best seasons of Survivor” and watched through.
Dream Theme: an all-queer season of Survivor
Meg: So, I know that Jeff just said in an interview that he doesn't know if the themed seasons are ever going to come back. But in your opinion, why has there not been an all queer season of Survivor? It needs to happen!
Kellie: That would be so messy, but I think it would be great TV. I would love that. Oh my god!
Meg: Me too! You could do a numbered returners season and throw some old favorites in—like you!
Kellie: Oh my god, I would be so down. What if they did like a captain's season? A draft would be so funny, like if you could schoolyard-pick queer people. Keep going. I’m just dreaming about this.
Meg: We want to hear your dreams. But we were gonna ask if you've seen the all-queer season of Are You the One?
Kellie: Oh, God. I haven't but I've been heavily recommended. I watched the Queer Ultimatum!
Meg: Us too.
Ali: The queer season of Are You the One? is messy. It's wonderful. It's problematic. It's everything.
Kellie: I've been watching Love Island UK—I can't help myself, I’m rooting for queers. Like, why aren't the girls kissing? Like, nevermind coupling up with the men!
Meg: I know. I love when girls are sometimes more than friends.
Survivor Idols?
Ali: Is there a past queer Survivor player that you look up to? Or whose game you tried to model yours after?
Kellie: Honestly, I love Parvati's game so much. I definitely went in wanting to play like her. But yeah, I love Todd. I'm a huge fan. I watched China early on and that season really got me into Survivor. I love Survivor for the social strategy and where it overlaps with the physical gameplay. Todd was just an absolute master of this. He also managed to overcome some people; like you've got Jean-Robert who was suspicious of Todd from Day One. But Todd still got to the end and won. So while I definitely wish I had said Todd was one of the players I wanted to emulate in pregame press, I said Parvati, which I stand by. I think she is the greatest Survivor player for the reasons I was talking about before—the ability to have the smokescreen and being able to maneuver sort of silently behind it, and then drop the knife (or the dagger) when you need to. Those are probably the two players who I absolutely adored.
Castaway connections
Meg: Who from your season—queer or not queer—are you closest with and who do you admire the most? Either in gameplay or just like in spirit? I know that you had a close relationship with Kendra.
Kellie: I think the person who I connected with immediately on day one was Kendra, which is so funny—people think we're so different, and we are. But we have something in common, which is that we’re both insanely competitive and we really bonded over that right away. When I went out to play the game, I was looking for someone to play with, a woman who was taller, louder, and maybe a little more emotional than me to try and take some heat off me. So when I met Kendra, I was like—she’s tall, and physically strong, and really, really outgoing. This is perfect. I was really excited to work with her. And this wasn’t shown as much in the edit but Kaleb and I had a very close relationship on the island. I felt like we really saw the game similarly, strategically and socially. We were both able to see past social compatibility with a person to see if they had value for our individual games. I loved bouncing ideas off with him super late into the night. And then we spent a lot of time and had a lot of fun together at Ponderosa with Kendra. Post game, Dee and I are very close. She's like my best friend. I'm so proud of her; I love that an amazing woman won my season if it wasn’t going to be me. I wish we could’ve been put on a starting tribe together, but they would never do that. We just clicked right at the merge.
Ali: I love that you said you’re so competitive, because I just put in one of our most recent newsletters that the intersection of gay people and competitive people is so high that it needs to be studied.
Kellie: That's so true. We’re high achievers as well, I think? I don't know. Maybe it's just me. Maybe I'm projecting my own shit onto people?
Ali: No, you're looking at two very competitive people.
Kellie: I think Survivor fans in general are. It's all the conspiracy.
Make Every Show Gay!
Ali: Any other reality shows that you think would be fun to play on (besides returning to Survivor)?
Kellie: Obviously, my dream is to go back to Survivor. So that will stay my priority. The Traitors is really hot right now and looks really fun. I love the idea of dressing up in a fun way. But it's a very different game. I don't know how good I would be at it. And I would love to do The Amazing Race with my fiancée. There haven't been a lot of successful two-women teams. I feel like we could win for sure and it would be fun. Maybe I would do The Challenge USA. But it's so physical. I'm athletic, but…it looks hard. Hopefully, Survivor!
Meg: Somebody on a podcast recently said something like, The Challenge used to be, “eat this bug!” And now it's like, “Jump off of this moving car onto another car that's on fire”.
Kellie: Yeah! I'm a nurse so I'm like, this is really dangerous.
Ali: It's funny that you said that The Traitors feels like such a different game, because in my head, I think people who played Survivor and then go on The Traitors have such an advantage because they've played a social game with a similar kind of mind game manipulation and alliances. Obviously there is the lying element if you're a Traitor.
Meg: The other difference about The Traitors is that you’re not starving. And that’s, you know, relevant.
Kellie: That’s so true. Also, I think that [the lying] is just so hard to sit in, to be honest.
Ali: Yeah, that's true. But with the games and the social aspect, I feel like someone from Survivor has an advantage there. The people from The Bachelor and Love Island…I don’t know.
Kellie: But honestly, some of them do well. You know what I mean? It's hard to say. Like Phaedra has been so great.
Ali: Ugh, Phaedra is doing so great.
Kellie: Peter is annoying me, but he obviously is playing the game. I think Survivor players and Big Brother players come in with reputations for being deceitful "gamers". I think that disadvantaged Dan or Parvati. I don't know how anyone goes on that show and doesn't consider that the two of them would be Traitors. And the structure of the game is also really different—they have a lot of alone time each night when they go into their rooms. I wish I played 39 day Survivor versus 26 because you have much more time to pick up on vibes and convince people of things. The Traitors removes a little bit of that because you only have pockets of time where you can hang out. So it's interesting. Also, the Round Table is like a heightened Tribal Council. It just feels like a performance. Even if you’re not an actor, you have to have a little of that, I’m on camera feeling.
Meg: It truly is theater.
Season 46 Winner Pick?
Ali: Our final question for you is: do you have a season 46 winner pick?
Kellie: Oh, no! I've been avoiding this. I don't love to make pre-season winner picks, because everyone is talking the talk in these things. Episode one and two are where you're going to see how they're going to play the game. I really like Venus. I love her story of resilience and why she's there to play the game. That goes a long way in those crappy moments. So I like her a lot. I think Tim could be like a little bit of a sleeper. He seems like he’d be very easy to get along with. Nothing really sticks out about him. I think when you can kind of ride the middle, that's a really safe place to be. I love Ben and am so excited to watch him play. Those are the people I’ve got my eyes on right now. So we'll see. I think it's gonna be crazy. This is a cast of characters.
Meg: I know. I was watching some of the pre-game press and I was like, they all have a lot of personality. I cannot wait to see them sleeping under, you know, a tarp together.
Kellie: There was one tweet that was like, this is how Survivor casting does it. It's like, cast Survivor (an odd numbered season). Then, okay, now let's do a fun one! And that's the even season. The odd is more serious and then it’s like, okay, silly picture! That's kind of accurate.
Meg: I love that.
Kellie: I think it was Bitter Jurors. Shout out to them.
Ali: Kellie, thank you so much for talking with us. This was really lovely!
Meg: Thank you so much for getting on Zoom with us and answering all our gay questions! We had the best time and can’t wait to share this with our subscribers.
Kellie: I loved it. This is so fun. Thanks for having me!
Survivor 46 premiered last night on CBS, and will air weekly on Wednesdays at 8pm ET.
Loved this interview!!!!
Iconic. Show stopping. Legendary.